{"id":3226,"date":"2015-05-13T11:12:55","date_gmt":"2015-05-13T11:12:55","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.therialto.co.uk\/pages\/?p=3226"},"modified":"2025-02-03T12:03:16","modified_gmt":"2025-02-03T12:03:16","slug":"lessons-from-press-gang-and-other-submissions","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.therialto.co.uk\/pages\/2015\/05\/13\/lessons-from-press-gang-and-other-submissions\/","title":{"rendered":"\u2018Lessons from Press Gang and other submissions\u2019"},"content":{"rendered":"

Rishi Dastidar and I are working closely with The Rialto editor Michael Mackmin on a programme designed to teach us about the process and philosophy of poetry editing. <\/em><\/p>\n

Following the publication of The Rialto\u2019s 81st issue, I met up online with Rishi to discuss how receiving poetry submissions has changed our perspective on the best way to send poems.<\/em>
\nHolly:<\/strong> When you read the covering letters and poems that are sent to The Rialto<\/em>, are there things in them that have made you see your own submissions in a different light?<\/p>\n

Rishi:<\/strong> Yes, definitely \u2013 I think I\u2019ve been consistently\u2026 surprised? impressed? about the care that goes into submissions. Makes me feel a wee bit guilty that I just dash stuff off at the last minute. How about you?<\/p>\n

Holly:<\/strong> Looking at the covering letters has been interesting. I used to worry so much about what to say, and reading so many of them has really brought home to me how much I just want people to get the name of the magazine right, remember a short bio and list the poems.<\/p>\n

How does it make you feel guilty?<\/p>\n

Rishi:<\/strong> Well, if I walk you through a submission I did last week \u2013 1) left it until the last moment, so maybe two days before deadline; 2) searching my inbox for the last bio I sent off; 3) copy and pasting both into a document; 4) pressing send; 5) remembering two hours later that I should have really put a big name publication on there that I didn\u2019t because I\u2019d been in such a rush to get it done. Not. Enough. Care.<\/p>\n

Holly:<\/strong> The Rialto<\/em> has rolling submissions, so we don\u2019t get the last minute rush. However, I\u2019m not sure if that means we\u2019re getting more considered submissions from the last minute people, or if the last minute people are less likely to submit \u2013 because there\u2019s never a last minute.<\/p>\n

Rishi:<\/strong> I think there\u2019s a very definite \u2018need a deadline\u2019 camp vs a much more organised camp. I know there are people out there with systems and spreadsheets to help marshal their submissions.<\/p>\n

Holly:<\/strong> Surely you have a system or it would get so confusing?<\/p>\n

Rishi:<\/strong>\u00a0Nope, no spreadsheet here \u2013 just a plain Word doc with no tables.<\/p>\n

Holly:\u00a0<\/strong>That\u2019s still a system, just more linear.<\/p>\n

Rishi:<\/strong>\u00a0When others have described their systems, I\u2019ve been struck not just by the systematization of the process (and I would argue that my process is not very systemic), but also an implied underlying principle that all finished poems should be sent out.<\/p>\n

(I am over-worrying that my system does not appear to be very systematic.)<\/p>\n

Holly:\u00a0<\/strong>I do think a spreadsheet can be useful \u2013 that\u2019s how I record submissions \u2013 but I don\u2019t think it means every poem on the sheet needs to be published. It\u2019s more that once something has had a certain amount of effort invested in it, it goes on. I started a spreadsheet as a way to remember what poems I\u2019d sent where, but then it became more of a way to remind myself what I had written full stop. I have a page for each year and I\u2019m always surprised when I go to the current page and realize that yes, there is stuff on it.<\/p>\n

Rishi:<\/strong>\u00a0Have you ever done that most heinous of sins? (Simultaneous Submission) (Is it even heinous any more?)<\/p>\n

Holly:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve done so, at least not on purpose. When I first submitted to magazines I didn\u2019t record what I\u2019d sent, as I thought I would remember, but three months later I still hadn\u2019t heard back and no longer knew what I\u2019d sent. Instead of risking it, I didn\u2019t make any more submissions until I\u2019d heard back. That\u2019s when I knew I needed to keep a record.<\/p>\n

Rishi:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019ve seen a couple of covering letters saying \u201cthis is a simultaneous submission\u2026\u201d Is this now a growing trend? Has \/ is the stigma of doing so wearing off?<\/p>\n

Holly:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t think I can really judge \u2013 since I would have needed to be editing for a longer period to see a change. However, it seems a bit self destructive \u2013 I mean what do you do if your preferred publication comes back and your poems have already been taken? It also seems a bit rude (unless simultaneous submissions are openly invited) a bit like saying you don\u2019t care about a publication enough to think about what you\u2019re sending, that you\u2019re just sending the same thing to everyone. Do you think that\u2019s a bit harsh?<\/p>\n

Rishi:<\/strong>\u00a0A little harsh, but then that gets us on the territory of: does one shape ones poems for certain titles? Who do you target and how?<\/p>\n

I think its fair to say from what we\u2019ve seen over the last five months we get a broad range of subjects, forms, attitudes\u2026<\/p>\n

I wonder if simultaneous submissions are basically saying \u2018I haven\u2019t actually seen \/ read where I\u2019m sending to. And I don\u2019t care?\u2019<\/p>\n

Holly:<\/strong>\u00a0I think that might be a fair characterization. I think I\u2019m more likely to see simultaneous submissions from someone who opens their covering letter, \u2018Dear Editor\u2019, or worse, \u2018Dear Sir\u2019, than from someone who uses the editors\u2019 names. It\u2019s partly acknowledging you\u2019ve read the publication but also that you are sending your poems to real people.<\/p>\n

I was asked to do a talk for some creative writing undergraduates a few months back, about how to submit work for publication. Many of the students assumed that most poetry magazine editors were full-time paid employees of their magazine and were very surprised when I explained that this isn\u2019t the case. As soon as you stop and think, \u201chang on, I\u2019m sending this to someone who is editing part-time or squeezing it into evenings and weekends,\u201d you maybe treat it a little differently.<\/p>\n

Rishi:<\/strong>\u00a0Indeed, indeed.<\/p>\n

Holly:<\/strong>\u00a0Did you have a mental picture of what an editor was like before your first-ever magazine submission?<\/p>\n

Rishi:<\/strong>\u00a0No\u2026 I\u2019m not sure that I ever did; I\u2019m not sure that I do now, even while dabbling.<\/p>\n

The thing of \u2018editor\u2019 has always struck me as being more of an \u2018embodiment\u2019 even though I know rationally its the expression of a person\u2019s taste, judgment, experience.<\/p>\n

Holly:<\/strong>\u00a0How do you mean?<\/p>\n

Rishi:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, I suspect this is my previous dabblings in other publications driving this, but: once the thing has a title and a name, it starts to take on a life, a characteristic that is more than just the tastes etc. of one person.<\/p>\n

It might be almost wholly associated with that person, but there\u2019s something about a masthead that should (ideally?) move it towards something a bit more objective.<\/p>\n

Holly:<\/strong>\u00a0Awww\u2026 I was hoping you\u2019d have amusing stories about what you thought editors were like when you were little.<\/p>\n

Rishi:<\/strong>\u00a0Ha ha! Probably Julia Sawalha in Press Gang!<\/p>\n

Holly:\u00a0<\/strong>I have no idea who that is.<\/p>\n

Rishi:<\/strong>\u00a0Youngsters!<\/p>\n

<iframe width=”100%” height=”400″ src=”https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/aZZg_-yrZHI” frameborder=”0″ allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/p>\n

That\u2019s the first editorial figure I can remember.<\/p>\n

Holly:<\/strong>\u00a0Wow! Do they solve crimes? Like the big corporation secretly dumping toxic waste in the local lake?<\/p>\n

Rishi:<\/strong>\u00a0I believe there was a local corruption story in the school broken open every week.<\/p>\n

One last one\u2026 Does publishing make a poem ready? Complete?<\/p>\n

Holly:<\/strong>\u00a0No. Definitely not. There are poems I\u2019ve had published that I\u2019ve continued to change \u2013 and I\u2019ve helped people with manuscripts where they have a poem which has an obvious flaw but they feel like they can\u2019t change it because it\u2019s been published and it\u2019s depressing, because publication doesn\u2019t make a poem more of a poem. It\u2019s just a way of sharing it with people.<\/p>\n

Rishi:<\/strong>\u00a0That *is* useful to know. Publishing a poem in a magazine is just a step on the poem\u2019s way somewhere else.<\/p>\n

Holly:<\/strong>\u00a0There are poems of mine in online magazines that are easily Google-able where the online version is not as good as the version in my pamphlet. This is particularly true of themed projects where I wrote the poem for a specific brief so it might have been only a few weeks old when it went online, whereas I prefer to keep re-drafting for a longer period.<\/p>\n

Rishi:<\/strong>\u00a0So how do you know when something\u2019s, if not finished, ready to send to a magazine?<\/p>\n

Holly:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, a poem can feel finished, but you return to it six months later and realize it wasn\u2019t. But since I\u2019ve learned that now, I usually wait those six months before sending it anywhere. However, when I write something for a themed project, usually there\u2019s a deadline, so I just have to decide whether I think it\u2019s ready enough. I like those projects because sometimes when I feel too busy with my paid jobs they can help me carve out a space to work and I enjoy having both the challenge and the deadline. But I know when I submit I may end up revising it much later.<\/p>\n

I think the big ask is, \u2018Would you want to read this in a magazine?\u2019 (If it had been written by someone else) and to be brutally honest with yourself. I reckon that self-honesty is the most important and hardest part of developing your writing. But at the same time, not to be disheartened by the honest answer, but to do something about it instead.<\/p>\n

Holly Hopkins<\/em>
\n<\/em><\/p>\n

Originally published on The Poetry School Website<\/a> as part of “Re: Drafts”.<\/em><\/em>
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